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Messages - KarneraMythos

1
General Discussion / Re: Slap City yo
July 24, 2018, 07:25:26 AM
For those who are curious, it plays like a hybrid between Smash 64 and Melee, with one or 2 unique traits of its own. It's (one of) the best Smash-clones for not trying too hard to be its own thing. It's a very honest, very fun game.
2
General Discussion / Re: So how about dem Ridleys?
July 11, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
Quote from: RockyRaccoon on June 19, 2018, 03:18:03 PMhe looks kind of like a senile old man though , they way they rendered him all crouched over and decrepit .

To be fair, the aged look suits him. He's like a space version of Cranky Kong, only Giger-y and into the whole "Kill your parents" thing. Totally relatable.
3
Quote from: RockyRaccoon on June 28, 2018, 10:47:43 AMi don't think anyone would want to play as heihachi .

his final smash would be to take a deep breath from his oxygen tank , and then sit on the porch chewing werther's originals .

and goofy with anime kid mask ?
gtfo .

Okay, then let me propose this: Heihachi actually joins the roster alongside Kazuya and Jin, and all of them are Echo Fighters of the Poke'mon Trainer's Pokemon. Sakurai kept the stamina mechanic in the game, but gave it to them instead. Playing too much with Heihachi causes him to fall over and explode, losing a stock. Sakurai doesn't know that Life Alert exists, so he left in this feature for him to make playing as an old fart authentic.

Hypothetically speaking, if Sora gets in, prepare for the resurgence of Linkin Park, My Chemical Romance, Hot Topic fashion, and uncensored "RAWR XD" posts. And the Nightmare Before Christmas, because hipster teens were into that back in Kingdom Hearts' heydays.
4
Option 5: Sora (Kingdom Hearts)


Pros:
  • Well-known ARPG protagonist from an internationally-known series (quite possibly the most popular example on this list). Also highly requested by many fans, with his most popular incarnation being the Kingdom Hearts II outfit
  • Relevant to this very day, being a versatile 3rd-Party character whose appearances on many different consoles lends to his popularity status, even in the games he was absent from
  • Provides a unique weapon and move-set type that are perfect for Smash. He also comes from games with original locals, gorgeous music, and is stylistically close to Cloud making him fit for Smash's art style. If Cloud is to Link in terms of company mascot rivals, then Shulk would be Sora's. They are also form a pseudo Science vs. Fantasy form of rivalry
  • Sora would be the first ever 3rd-party character to introduce (or reference) characters not originally from video games, as his presence may mean that Donald and Goofy would appear in some form (i.e. a Final Smash similar to Shulk which features Dunban, Riki, and now Mecha!Fiora)

Counter-arguments to his perks:
  • "Well-known ARPG protagonist from an internationally-known series (quite possibly the most popular example on this list). Also highly requested by many fans, with his most popular incarnation being the Kingdom Hearts II outfit"

    His popularity is held back by his connection to Disney, as it may put a damper on his odds. That being said, Disney might see it as an opportunity to increase interest in Kingdom Hearts III beyond the hype it already generated
    -
  • "Relevant to this very day, being a versatile 3rd-Party character whose appearances on many different consoles lends to his popularity status, even in the games he was absent from"

    Sora's library of appearances do not boost his chances as significantly as people would like, since they all come from multiple platforms. Best case scenario, Sakurai sticks to Kingdom Hearts II as his reference material, with Roxas possibly being a palette swap (or not, for spoiler reasons)
    -
  • "Provides a unique weapon and move-set type that are perfect for Smash. He also comes from games with original locals, gorgeous music, and is stylistically close to Cloud making him fit for Smash's art style. If Cloud is to Link in terms of company mascot rivals, then Shulk would be Sora's. They are also form a pseudo Science vs. Fantasy form of rivalry"

    His keyblade is still functionally sword-like in motion, so he would play as a more aggressive version of Robin at best. Twilight Town and The World That Never Was would be likely candidates for stages, provided all references to Disney are stripped away. In addition to Disney's meddling, much of Sora's moveset would have to be heavily censored to fit Smash while obscuring anything Disney might want to charge Nintendo for beyond giving them permission to use their brain-child, potential shared rivalry with Link and Shulk be damned
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  • "Sora would be the first ever 3rd-party character to introduce (or reference) characters not originally from video games, as his presence may mean that Donald and Goofy would appear in some form (i.e. a Final Smash similar to Shulk which features Dunban, Riki, and now Mecha!Fiora)"

    Adding to the above, Sora faces major obstacles that can break his chances of ever appearing in Smash, and that is the presence and involvement of Disney itself as well as his status as a pseudo-Disney character. There are also the issue of lawyers, shareholders, and other Heads at Disney wanting a tremendous bulk of the profit from Smash's sales due to Sora's presence alone. This would potentially worsen with Donald and Goofy, and by extension Mickey if they choose to reference him via trophy (Vanitas or Riku would likely be an Assist Trophy). It's either Sora will cost far too much to be a practical 3rd-party newcomer, or will not be included at all on the grounds that Disney wishes to be protective of their brain-child

Cons:
  • Is conceptually similar to Cloud, and may be seen as a secondary Final Fantasy character due to sharing the same artistic Godfather. The other 3rd-party characters pay no resemblance to each other whatsoever, even the choices above this list. As such, Sora's presence may be seen as "We tried to get Squall, settled for the closest thing instead"
  • Is caught between two video games, with Kingdom Hearts II being over 12 years old and the current Kingdom Hearts still being in production. Square Enix's meddling may involve Kingdom Hearts III in some way, as it is the most relevant Kingdom Hearts in the market right now
  • May be viewed as "yet another sword-fighter" which would oversaturate their amount in the roster, despite only representing a small fraction of all the selectable fighters the game has to offer. This perceived bias might have influenced Sakurai against Sora's inclusion, even when taking into account the unique properties of the Kingdom Key that Sora wields
  • As it was already mentioned before, Sora and Sakurai face legal problems with the character. Sakurai's Magic is certainly Herculean, but Disney's Magic is so above and beyond that loads and loads of cash will inevitably be involved (and that is if Disney even approves of the idea of Sora's inclusion in itself, instead of outright rejecting it)

Counter-arguments to his problems:
  • "Is conceptually similar to Cloud, and may be seen as a secondary Final Fantasy character due to sharing the same artistic Godfather. The other 3rd-party characters pay no resemblance to each other whatsoever, even the choices above this list. As such, Sora's presence may be seen as "We tried to get Squall, settled for the closest thing instead""

    Nomura's art style wouldn't deter Sora's chances, as the characters are different enough on their own that they can share a roster together with the likes of Mario, Samus, Pikachu, and Fox. There are plenty of people clamoring for Geno, and others hoping for Shadow and Ken as Echo Fighters, so the argument of "too similar" has nothing going against it
    -
  • "Is caught between two video games, with Kingdom Hearts II being over 12 years old and the current Kingdom Hearts still being in production. Square Enix's meddling may involve Kingdom Hearts III in some way, as it is the most relevant Kingdom Hearts in the market right now"

    As big and expansive as the Kingdom Hearts universe is, Sakurai will likely be told everything he needs to know if Square Enix enforces Kingdom Hearts III references. On the flip-side, Kingdom Hearts II is all he needs as material, since Cloud's moveset and appearance in Smash are based on his classic PS2 appearance and Advent Children appearance. Sora would follow suite if all else fails
    -
  • "May be viewed as "yet another sword-fighter" which would oversaturate their amount in the roster, despite only representing a small fraction of all the selectable fighters the game has to offer. This perceived bias might have influenced Sakurai against Sora's inclusion, even when taking into account the unique properties of the Kingdom Key that Sora wields"

    This argument has no basis beyond unfounded bias toward a group that is highly under-represented. It all comes apart when one brings up "too many animal fighters", "too many punchy-kick fighters", "too many fire fighters", and "too many toon fighters". Putting Sora on the wayside for using a sword-like instrument is nothing more than a chip on one's shoulder for all the Fire Emblem representation in Smash 4
    -
  • "As it was already mentioned before, Sora and Sakurai face legal problems with the character. Sakurai's Magic is certainly Herculean, but Disney's Magic is so above and beyond that loads and loads of cash will inevitably be involved (and that is if Disney even approves of the idea of Sora's inclusion in itself, instead of outright rejecting it)"

    Disney could potentially be open to the idea of promoting a game series they have a part in. Considering their recent endeavor with Capcom, there's a chance they may consider Sora's inclusion in Smash as it is a renown and popular series amongst fans versus the undersold, niche, and highly-divisive Marvel vs. Capcom series. Disney also had involvement with Wreck-It Ralph, and given all of its cameos and appearances from the video game side of things, it's entirely possible they are not as close-minded about the idea of Sora as we think

Option 6:

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Option 7:


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Option 8:


Pros:
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Cons:[/i]
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5
Quote from: RockyRaccoon on June 19, 2018, 07:14:11 PMwait ... why does bayonetta get a square ?

should be pokemon trainer , i think .

There's Young Link as well. Bayonetta was probably included because she was the nearest thing to the Smash 4 equivalent of Snake, so people thought she would be a one-hit wonder.
6
Introductions / Re: Re-Introductions
June 21, 2018, 01:26:45 AM
Re-Introductions eh? Ahh, how time flies... Let's get cracking, shall we?

I used to go by the alias "WarIn54321", based off of an Inside Joke back in High School. I joined this site in 2008 thanks to Rocky, who introduced me and other people in IGN's comment section back when Brawl was heavily a thing. It's funny looking back and seeing everything I used to post. A lot of us are too embarrassed to talk about it, but those were funny-funny times. It makes me miss it a little considering how different, how brave, and how intimidating the world of maturity is. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss.

I too have a degree in Graphic Design, and it has been very long since I've played with everyone here. Hell, I'm barely active in the Discord Chat. With so much to shuffle through, it's difficult to keep up with so many different tasks at once. Being an Attention Deficit Introvert makes parsing activities a lot harder than it needs to be, as the same cannot be said for people who don't have a concentration problem like I do. Nonetheless, I love this site and everyone in it, and I hope to be as active as I used to (or at least in relativity to the time available to us all).
7
(WIP)

Option 1: Nightmare (Soul Edge/Soul Calibur)


Pros:
  • Fulfill's Namco's older and more "mature" appeal when juxtaposed with Pac-Man
  • His inclusion would come full circle with Soul Calibur II, which featured Link on the Gamecube version over a decade ago
  • His series' music score is very orchestral and tense, having fantastical elements that is befitting of the series as well as Smash
  • One-ups Heihachi and any Mishima rep from Tekken by virtue of fulfilling a uniquely-different quota from Ryu, who is already the quintessential martial arts 3rd-party "Fighter"

Counter-arguments to his perks:
  • "Fulfill's Namco's older and more "mature" appeal when juxtaposed with Pac-Man"

    An unsubstantiated assumption based on a very-credible rumor that Simon Belmont is a newcomer, giving Konami two not-so-kidfriendly 3rd-party reps
    -
  • "His inclusion would come full circle with Soul Calibur II, which featured Link on the Gamecube version over a decade ago"

    Sakurai (and the rest of Nintendo) is not obligated to give Namco an "eye for an eye". Nightmare would probably not be Namco's secondary choice as far as mascots are concerned, heavily favoring the likes of Heihachi and KOS-MOS given their prominence in other crossovers
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  • "His series' music score is very orchestral and tense, having fantastical elements that is befitting of the series as well as Smash"

    A lot of games would fit in Smash, making this a weak point given how more than a handful already look out-of-place when you introduce outside-context elements in them like Cloud, Snake, and Bayonetta
    -
  • "One-ups Heihachi and any Mishima rep from Tekken by virtue of fulfilling a uniquely-different quota from Ryu, who is already the quintessential martial arts 3rd-party "Fighter""

    Namco would likely not care as Heihachi (or any Mishima for that matter) has been utilized in most of their crossovers. Pile up Sakurai's initial interest in adding him in, and Ryu might have a rival from the Namco side; martial arts "oversaturation" be damned

Cons:
  • His most iconic design is based on his Soul Calibur II look. Alternates would not be an issue, but his fleshy, visceral Soul Edge weapon may mess with the game's rating somewhat
  • Has only been relevant in his home game, never appearing in a crossover. The only ones that have were Mitsurugi, Taki, Natsu, Ivy, and Pyrrha
  • Would probably be left aside in favor of Siegfried, Mitsurugi, or Sophitia. The other characters bring their own elements of style to the table that the only reason Nightmare would be included if at all is his imposing stature and darkhorse status with the fandom
  • Is probably not even considered given Heihachi's presence. Putting aside having two gi-wearing fighters, Heihachi would serve enough as a Foil for Ryu to be interesting on his own right, following the way of the Mii Fighters, Villager, and Ridley in his possible (if eventual) inclusion

Counter-arguments to his problems:
  • "His most iconic design is based on his Soul Calibur II look. Alternates would not be an issue, but his fleshy, visceral Soul Edge weapon may mess with the game's rating somewhat"

    Before Ridley, Bayonetta weaponizes her sexuality in a charming manner, making her the most characterized, yet heroic femme fatale in the overall roster. With Ridley, we already have a nightmarishly-awesome villain in the roster whose general appearance would likely scare younger players anyway. Ergo, Nightmare and his gory-looking weapon should not be an issue
    -
  • "Has only been relevant in his home game, never appearing in a crossover. The only ones that have were Mitsurugi, Taki, Natsu, Ivy, and Pyrrha"

    The above characters have only ever appeared in their own crossovers ONCE. There is no rule stating that Nightmare cannot be a prominent player in a crossover eventually, and would likely be considered by Sakurai over the likes of Mitsurugi and Sophitia for being more interesting to work with given his fantastical elements above the more human characters
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  • "Would probably be left aside in favor of Siegfried, Mitsurugi, or Sophitia. The other characters bring their own elements of style to the table that the only reason Nightmare would be included if at all is his imposing stature and darkhorse status with the fandom"

    Regarding Siegfried himself, Nightmare would have him as an alternate costume or vice versa, eliminating that problem. The other characters are also outdone by the likes of Heihachi and Valkyrie (Sophitia's progenitor)
    -
  • "Is probably not even considered given Heihachi's presence. Putting aside having two gi-wearing fighters, Heihachi would serve enough as a Foil for Ryu to be interesting on his own right, following the way of the Mii Fighters, Villager, and Ridley in his possible (if eventual) inclusion"

    Assuming Ryu was already in development with Heihachi following suite, the issue regarding two martial artists (and 3rd-party reps at that) is probably non-existent. However, Nightmare also represents Tekken in a meta sense, being part of the series that is canonically many centuries before the entire plot of the Iron Fist Tournament. It would also do away with the inevitable comparisons between Smash!Heihachi and All-Stars!Heihachi

Option 2: Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)


Pros:
  • Would be the Ryu to Mega Man's Pac-Man. The two companies have thematically-similar IPs, making them a mirror universe of sorts
  • His inclusion would spark interest amongst the Smash, Tekken, and All-Stars fandom, making him the only Guest character of his kind to appear in all three
  • His series modernized music score would serve a heavy contrast to the sort that Nightmare is more at-home with. Sakurai might even try to add wall-combo mechanics of the sort where you juggle people helplessly in Tekken, which could be a fun stage element depending on what would be added
  • Has been and still continues to be relevant in every game he is featured in. Heihachi is also interesting enough on his own that all the potential Dream Matches involving him covers almost all familiar bases (i.e. the Corrins and their Devil Gene-esque powers, Ganondorf's likeness to Akuma, Cloud bridging the gap between Smash, Tekken, and Final Fantasy VII, etc.)

Counter-arguments to his perks:
  • "Would be the Ryu to Mega Man's Pac-Man. The two companies have thematically-similar IPs, making them a mirror universe of sorts"

    Mega Man and Pac-Man have "Man" in their names, but that's where their similarities end. Ryu and Heihachi are still human fighters who are beyond the peak level of strength and refinement, and have different moral compasses. Their similarities are too grounded to be interesting as a whole
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  • "His inclusion would spark interest amongst the Smash, Tekken, and All-Stars fandom, making him the only Guest character of his kind to appear in all three"

    While there is potential to bring in fandoms, that is not Sakurai's goal. Much of what is built around Smash is done so by its fans. Case in point, Captain Falcon and Ness, as well as Marth and Roy sparking interest in their respective franchises. The idea is that Smash is a renaissance for games, not the other way around. That is to say, the pleasant and unexpected surprises resonate the most with the community at large
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  • "His series modernized music score would serve a heavy contrast to the sort that Nightmare is more at-home with. Sakurai might even try to add wall-combo mechanics of the sort where you juggle people helplessly in Tekken, which could be a fun stage element depending on what would be added"

    Much like with Nightmare and Soul Calibur music, it is not the go-to reason to add a rep from a series, and the nature of Tekken stages would give its represented Smash stage a crumple state on walls at most. From a gameplay perspective, this could be game-breaking for certain characters
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  • "Has been and still continues to be relevant in every game he is featured in. Heihachi is also interesting enough on his own that all the potential Dream Matches involving him covers almost all familiar bases (i.e. the Corrins and their Devil Gene-esque powers, Ganondorf's likeness to Akuma, Cloud bridging the gap between Smash, Tekken, and Final Fantasy VII, etc.)"

    Relevance isn't a shoo-in for a character either. Heihachi had to deal with Akuma back in Tekken 7, instead of Ryu, proving that Namco has a very specific way of choosing what character appears in what game. They might go for a different Tekken character entirely, such as Jin or Kazuya if they feel their Devil Gene abilities fit Smash's theme best

Cons:
  • Might have to compete for a spot in the roster against Kazuya and Jin. Their flashier move-sets would probably translate better as Ryu's may be seen as appropriate enough for Smash. It doesn't help that Heihachi is implied to be Harada's self-insert
  • His many alternate outfits could potentially overshadow how Ryu is represented in the roster, on top of having a potentially more interesting stage and a more inspired gameplay style
  • Is essentially another karate-type man in lieu of Namco's more dynamic choices. While Tekken 3 was a big hit worldwide, the Tekken series itself lacks the seniority and impact Street Fighter had, with Heihachi not even being the series' Main Protagonist versus Ryu's status as the Godfather of Fighting games (and THE protagonist of his games to boot)
  • A Soul Calibur rep would combine elements of Tekken, Street Fighter, and Fire Emblem all in one based on the fact that the rep in question offers more to Smash than Heihachi does. Namco has other mascots in their library outside of Soul Calibur that could (and should) cover different and unexplored bases

Counter-arguments to his problems:
  • "Might have to compete for a spot in the roster against Kazuya and Jin. Their flashier move-sets would probably translate better as Ryu's may be seen as appropriate enough for Smash. It doesn't help that Heihachi is implied to be Harada's self-insert"

    While Jin or Kazuya's chances fair better due to protagonists of each franchise being prioritized, the Tekken franchise fluctuates its Protagonists, and a lot of the characters are too morally gray for representation to matter in the long run. The implication that Heihachi is Harada's avatar is not confirmed either
    -
  • "His many alternate outfits could potentially overshadow how Ryu is represented in the roster, on top of having a potentially more interesting stage and a more inspired gameplay style"

    There is nothing against the possibility that Ryu will have his own alternate costumes, making this point moot. Tekken's gameplay elements being better in any way than how Street Fighter is presented in Smash is merely subjective, with any obnoxious stage hazards like wall-juggling being an option that one can toggle off
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  • "Is essentially another karate-type man in lieu of Namco's more dynamic choices. While Tekken 3 was a big hit worldwide, the Tekken series itself lacks the seniority and impact Street Fighter had, with Heihachi not even being the series' Main Protagonist versus Ryu's status as the Godfather of Fighting games (and THE protagonist of his games to boot)"

    Tekken's success should NOT be ignored, even when faced with Street Fighter. They have a friendly rivalry, and while the protagonists in Tekken change from time-to-time, Ryu's blank slate status as the protagonist of his own franchise would be its own contrast to how Heihachi is portrayed in Tekken
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  • "A Soul Calibur rep would combine elements of Tekken, Street Fighter, and Fire Emblem all in one based on the fact that the rep in question offers more to Smash than Heihachi does. Namco has other mascots in their library outside of Soul Calibur that could (and should) cover different and unexplored bases"

    While a Soul Calibur rep can cover multiple bases that Heihachi cannot, the latter has plenty of familiarity going for him when put up besides Nightmare, Klonoa, and KOS-MOS, who are niche in comparison. He is also unique in that his status in the roster would cover 3D Fighters to Ryu's 2D Fighter

Option 3: Klonoa (Klonoa)


Pros:
  • Would be Namco's answer to Sonic, while keeping elements of Pac-Man in his design to keep a close connection to his predecessor(?)
  • Comes from a series whose platforming elements are unique, constantly shifting at corners versus Sonic's more maze-like levels
  • Klonoa's kid-friendly appearance could serve as a contrast to Konami's representation of Solid Snake and Simon Belmont, keeping the elements colorful on his end alongside Pac-Man. His presence would also balance out the more mature 3rd-party reps already representing their own series, as it is Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man alongside Cloud, Bayonetta, Snake, and Simon
  • Is rather obscure like Geno and Shantae, but in a good way. Klonoa has also been featured in a few Namco crossovers in a manner similar to Heihachi and KOS-MOS. His cult status also lends him a bit of support as the potential for his inclusion in Smash could rejuvenate interest in his games

Counter-arguments to his perks:
  • "Would be Namco's answer to Sonic, while keeping elements of Pac-Man in his design to keep a close connection to his predecessor(?)"

    Klonoa's connection to Pac-Man is superficial and nothing more than a small shout-out. His relationship with Sonic is also non-existent, playing up a cliche trope no different from your designated girl fights
    -
  • "Comes from a series whose platforming elements are unique, constantly shifting at corners versus Sonic's more maze-like levels"

    The series HAD to have failed at garnering public interest for a number of reasons, given how even its presentation couldn't keep it relevant
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  • "Klonoa's kid-friendly appearance could serve as a contrast to Konami's representation of Solid Snake and Simon Belmont, keeping the elements colorful on his end alongside Pac-Man. His presence would also balance out the more mature 3rd-party reps already representing their own series, as it is Sonic, Mega Man, and Pac-Man alongside Cloud, Bayonetta, Snake, and Simon"

    As nice as it would be to mirror Konami in some fashion, Klonoa's role is not obligated and there is no quota to fulfill as far as 3rd-parties go. He is also ironically the least colorful of the secondary Namco reps, having less resources to pull from
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  • "Is rather obscure like Geno and Shantae, but in a good way. Klonoa has also been featured in a few Namco crossovers in a manner similar to Heihachi and KOS-MOS. His cult status also lends him a bit of support as the potential for his inclusion in Smash could rejuvenate interest in his games"

    The last major crossover Klonoa was seen in was in Namco x Capcom, which was released in 2005 in Japan only. Heihachi and KOS-MOS have stood the test of time in comparison, being both relevant and somewhat niche in comparison to bigger-name series like Street Fighter and Mega Man

Cons:
  • Hasn't seen a mainline title since 2008, approximately one decade from now. The only appearance Klonoa has made was through small cameos in other video games, hurting his chances of being considered by Namco. When placed alongside the current third-party characters, relevancy comes into question
  • Klonoa hasn't done anything worthy of a legacy. When compared to specific Indie game characters such as Shantae and Shovel Knight, he fails to hold a niche vocal enough to place him in relevancy. In a way, he is an Indie character with none of the benefits or innovation of one
  • Might be perceived as a bootleg Sonic OC for those who haven't kept up with Namco's video game history. Even with that knowledge, Klonoa might be perceived as too aesthetically similar to Sonic to be a refreshing third-party choice
  • His platforming origins are superficially reminiscent of other video games of that era, harkening back to an age where platformers such as Spyro the Dragon, Crash, Gex, Abe's Odyssey, Taz, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, etc. prevailed. Of all possible choices for Smash, Klonoa loses out to more prominent mascots such as Crash and Spyro

Counter-arguments to his problems:
  • "Hasn't seen a mainline title since 2008, approximately one decade from now. The only appearance Klonoa has made was through small cameos in other video games, hurting his chances of being considered by Namco. When placed alongside the current third-party characters, relevancy comes into question"

    While it's true that Klonoa hasn't seen the spotlight in a while, Mega Man was in a similar situation. In a more extreme case, Ness and Lucas have not seen continuation of their series for a lot longer, so relevancy is not-terribly huge an issue for Klonoa
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  • "Klonoa hasn't done anything worthy of a legacy. When compared to specific Indie game characters such as Shantae and Shovel Knight, he fails to hold a niche vocal enough to place him in relevancy. In a way, he is an Indie character with none of the benefits or innovation of one"

    First of all, Klonoa is a Japan-made IP, making the current directors easier for Sakurai to come in contact with. Secondly, Indie reps are almost unheard of in Japan, making Shovel Knight and Shantae next-to-impossible to include as Sakurai's home country is not as familiar with a lot of Indie reps as the rest of the world is. The only one who could give Klonoa a run for his money is Shantae, for being an Indie character who has been around for a lot longer
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  • "Might be perceived as a bootleg Sonic OC for those who haven't kept up with Namco's video game history. Even with that knowledge, Klonoa might be perceived as too aesthetically similar to Sonic to be a refreshing third-party choice"

    There are more than a handful of characters who are compared to other existing characters in the roster. The similarities between him and Sonic are apples to oranges. Beyond aesthetics, Klonoa would be the only
    -
  • "His platforming origins are superficially reminiscent of other video games of that era, harkening back to an age where platformers such as Spyro the Dragon, Crash, Gex, Abe's Odyssey, Taz, Ratchet & Clank, Jak & Daxter, etc. prevailed. Of all possible choices for Smash, Klonoa loses out to more prominent mascots such as Crash and Spyro"

    Klonoa has the advantage of being a Japanese-made platformer when being compared to characters from platformers made by American studios, which much like the Shovel Knight situation and the rest of the Indies by proxy share the same issue. If Klonoa's problem is relevancy, then the more recognizable American IPs suffer for regional reasons, so the competition for a spot in the roster is hardly there

Option 4: KOS-MOS Ver. 1 (Xenosaga)


Pros:
  • Would be Namco's answer to Mega Man, being the only other robotic representative of a 3rd-Party company seen by many to be Capcom's mirror counterpart. She is also something of a counterpart to Bayonetta as well, being the white to her black while donning sci-fi characteristics to Bayonetta's fantasy aesthetics
  • Comes from the predecessor games to the current Xenoblade series, and exists within the Xeno game Multiverse as a whole. Monolith Soft has a very good relationship with both Nintendo and Namco, and has featured both KOS-MOS and T-elos as guests in the latest Xenoblade title
  • KOS-MOS would be the second female third-party rep (not that there aren't already plenty of different females to choose from in general). She is also a part of the company's legacy, appearing in major and minor crossover titles to the point of being the unofficial mascot ala Mega Man for Capcom
  • Is well-known by gaming culture and has made an impact in gaming history, be it good or bad. She also has the luxury of pulling many resources from all her games, the most prominent being her different outfits. If KOS-MOS is playable in Ultimate, her default would likely be based on her Xenosaga Episode I appearance

Counter-arguments to her perks:
  • "Would be Namco's answer to Mega Man, being the only other robotic representative of a 3rd-Party company seen by many to be Capcom's mirror counterpart. She is also something of a counterpart to Bayonetta as well, being the white to her black while donning sci-fi characteristics to Bayonetta's fantasy aesthetics"

    Much like with Klonoa, company counterparts are not necessary and there is no quota to fulfill in regards to what is being represented in each company. Additionally, Sakurai might deem Bayonetta good enough for the gun-totting role in a way that's similar to Heihachi being excluded because Ryu plays the martial artist role
    -
  • "Comes from the predecessor games to the current Xenoblade series, and exists within the Xeno game Multiverse as a whole. Monolith Soft has a very good relationship with both Nintendo and Namco, and has featured both KOS-MOS and T-elos as guests in the latest Xenoblade title"

    Xenosaga has not seen a major title since 2006, which has actually been longer than Klonoa has seen a video game. You can make the argument that KOS-MOS is a zombie mascot whose relevancy remains due to her official cameos. However, you could also argue that a game has not come out since then due to the book on her series closing, much in the same way that Earthbound/Mother ended
    -
  • "KOS-MOS would be the second female third-party rep (not that there aren't already plenty of different females to choose from in general). She is also a part of the company's legacy, appearing in major and minor crossover titles to the point of being the unofficial mascot ala Mega Man for Capcom"

    KOS-MOS is popular enough to be considered one of Namco's most recognizable characters, and she would fulfill a few fields to help her stand out amongst her peers in Smash. That being said, it isn't saying much when your company rival has more video games than you do, has went through sequel stagnation several times, and has been largely ignored even within crossovers (i.e. underutilized or not utilized at all). In short, KOS-MOS is less known than Mega Man at his best and worst
    -
  • "Is well-known by gaming culture and has made an impact in gaming history, be it good or bad. She also has the luxury of pulling many resources from all her games, the most prominent being her different outfits. If KOS-MOS is playable in Ultimate, her default would likely be based on her Xenosaga Episode I appearance"

    While it's true that KOS-MOS has a lot to utilize in order to make her a zoner counterpart to her spiritual descendant Shulk, Sakurai has not expressed any sort of feelings toward Xenosaga despite being enamored with Xenoblade as a whole. While this argument could be made for other video games not yet represented - but viable nonetheless - it's always important to point out the details. The Xenosaga games on their own are quite controversial at their lowest points, with Xenoblade being seen as an improvement in the combat and writing departments

Cons:
  • As said before, KOS-MOS hasn't been in a major title since 2006, making it over a decade since she has had a starring role. To say nothing of the cameo appearances since then, Namco doesn't seem to know what they want to do with her, and unless an HD remake of the Xenosaga is somewhere around the horizon, she will remain a cult classic with comparable chances to Indie reps
  • KOS-MOS characterization is seen as dull by many, being written as a completely-robotic individual whose character arc involves her growing understanding of human traits. Her Comically Serious attitude could be off-putting to her detractors, citing Klonoa as a fun choice, Heihachi being a no-nonsense badass, and Nightmare being freakishly cool. When standing next to her company's peers, she is pretty boring personality-wise
  • She carries weapons heavily reminiscent of machine guns, and her most prominent abilities (i.e. D-TENERITAS & X-BUSTER) place heavy emphasis on her figure, which would either be heavily toned down to keep the game's rating where Sakurai intends it to be, or outright removed
  • KOS-MOS could potentially face problems in regards to how Monolith Soft wants Sakurai to portray her. In Xenoblade Chronicles 2, her design is based on her appearance in Xenosaga Episode I. It also has its own differences to set it apart from the original. Her presence in the roster would create confusion on whether or not she should be considered a related character to Shulk despite being 3rd-party, or a completely separate entity whose ties to the Xenoblade series is only trivial at most

Counter-arguments to her problems:
  • "As said before, KOS-MOS hasn't been in a major title since 2006, making it over a decade since she has had a starring role. To say nothing of the cameo appearances since then, Namco doesn't seem to know what they want to do with her, and unless an HD remake of the Xenosaga is somewhere around the horizon, she will remain a cult classic with comparable chances to Indie reps"

    Without bringing up Earthbound/Mother once more, a brand new Xenosaga title is not necessary to put her back in the radar. She is already fairly known by many, even to those who have never played her games. In addition to that, Namco's willingness to include her in their crossovers may also suggest that she has a special place in their hearts and they wish to get her in on the fun
    -
  • "KOS-MOS characterization is seen as dull by many, being written as a completely-robotic individual whose character arc involves her growing understanding of human traits. Her Comically Serious attitude could be off-putting to her detractors, citing Klonoa as a fun choice, Heihachi being a no-nonsense badass, and Nightmare being freakishly cool. When standing next to her company's peers, she is pretty boring personality-wise"

    Her robotic personality is part of KOS-MOS' charm, and unlike Mega Man, would retain something that is a part of her character. Even when taking into account how much Klonoa, Heihachi, and Nightmare have to offer on their own, KOS-MOS has a lot in her luggage. Her abilities and appearance more than make up for her flaws, allowing her to stand out
    -
  • "She carries weapons heavily reminiscent of machine guns, and her most prominent abilities (i.e. D-TENERITAS & X-BUSTER) place heavy emphasis on her figure, which would either be heavily toned down to keep the game's rating where Sakurai intends it to be, or outright removed"

    Sexuality is hardly an issue, especially when one views how Bayonetta was handled, and what Sakurai has done to Samus' figure in Ultimate, as well as Snake's butt being MIA. The portrayal of firearms is also moot when one considers the Zohar guns, which look more fantastical in design than the machine guns she's mostly known for. KOS-MOS would likely borrow elements from her Re: design in Xenoblade Chronicles 2, and fittingly so given Sakurai's affinity toward composite designs
    -
  • "KOS-MOS could potentially face problems in regards to how Monolith Soft wants Sakurai to portray her. In Xenoblade Chronicles 2, her design is based on her appearance in Xenosaga Episode I. It also has its own differences to set it apart from the original. Her presence in the roster would create confusion on whether or not she should be considered a related character to Shulk despite being 3rd-party, or a completely separate entity whose ties to the Xenoblade series is only trivial at most"

    KOS-MOS faces no actual issue in regards to what appearance Monolith Soft would settle for. Since she counts as a 3rd-party rep, she would not have any references to Blades in Xenoblade Chronicles 2. She might retain some design aesthetics given to her in the game as a Guest Blade, but they would otherwise do away with the core crystal concept completely to make KOS-MOS her own individual. They would not want her to live in Shulk's shadow, so they would have Sakurai utilize elements purely from her games
8
It's an allegory. The gun represents the phrase, "Shoot for the moon."

It's also used to hold Yoshi at gun-point so that the latter may properly file his taxes.
9
"EVERYONE IS
HERE!"

"Nobody gets left behind!"

>Waluigi got left behind.
>Waluigi is a Nobody confirmed.

10
Here's a What If?

If Duplicate Accounts somehow snuck their way in, but they all went unnoticed until now, would they be considered Epsilon Accounts?
11
General Discussion / Re: Rocky you mad man
June 14, 2018, 10:17:45 PM


The timing is pure platinum.
12
Updates / Re: 11/12/2015 NEWCOMER: Cloud Strife
November 17, 2015, 09:43:00 PM
NO NEED TO TYPE SO cLOUD, KEVIN ;D
13
Heyoooo!

IKE:
Event: Classic Intensity 9.0
GSP: 1,604,644
Score: 712,590

MEGA MAN:
Event: All-Star Mode (Hard)
GSP: 1,428,255
Score: 2,694,900

MII:
Event: Smash Run
GSP: 1,572,118
Score: 166,221
14
Teams / Re: Are there gonna be new teams for Smash 4?
October 03, 2014, 02:13:14 PM
I need to think of one. Hmmm...
15
Quote from: RockyRaccoon on September 19, 2014, 08:33:47 PM
and finally ... hasn't sakurai been known to flat-out lie about these kinds of things ?


If "No more clones" is anything to go by, yup.

Quotethen i will use Wii-Bru to apply an ice climbers skin over rosalina and luma .


I wonder how long it'll be until we see the first mods when the Wii U version is released

Quotei know ... very strange .

btw , if one more tile were added , it would make 50 = 5 x 10 .
is there a more rational way to layout 50 spaces ?

WHO LIKES PUZZLES ?


I do! Well, certain ones, anyway... I think I can revise the one I made, just for the heck of it.