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Author Topic: SSB4 PREDICTIONS/IDEAS THREAD. JUST LIKE WE USED TO :DD  (Read 1732 times)
SuperLuigiGalaxy
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« Reply #45 on: December 21, 2011, 07:04:56 PM »

Thing is, Skyward Sword retcons who the main villain is of the LOZ series. I think they pretty much used up all the possible scenarios in which Ganondorf could plot taking the Triforce. Unlike Link and Zelda who are different across games, we've only had one Ganondorf. Playing as Link, we've officially sealed him, resealed him, slain him, impaled him and made him into stone in Ocarina of Time, A Link to the Past, Legend of Zelda, Twilight Princess and Wind Waker respectively. To overextend Ganondorf's story is just forcing it.

After Twilight Princess, I think Aonuma realized this and the direction of the timeline made a halt in slewing out games with Ganon in it. The next game Minish Cap cared to explain the origins of Link's garb and showed the early state of Hyrule. Then, Phantom Hourglass, was like Majora's Mask in that it expanded TWW Link and Tetra's adventure. Spirit Tracks was a whole new direction in that it introduced a new evil in Malladus.

Being the first title of the timeline, Skyward Sword paved a way to not be restricted to Ganondorf. The biggest flaw was that by making Ocarina of Time, all the Ganons we've seen thus far became one and the same person. OoT restricted Ganon's backstory. To make amends, Skyward Sword introduces a being from whom Ganondorf's essence comes from. This would allow their business model to create new villains that would be chosen by the Triforce of Power but retain some semblance of Ganondorf. Demise actually has a similar build and stance as Ganondorf. From hereon, it's less likely that we'll see Ganondorf again, but rather, some reincarnation of Demise. Demise is the new Ganondorf, in that, he retcons Ganondorf as the main antagonist.

I'd rather put my trust in Gorons returning than Ganondorf. At least they've been in every Zelda game since they debuted.

Only one person bears the Triforce now, Link. I'm actually surprised that we're retaining "Legend of Zelda" when clearly, it was always about Link and how it will always be about Link. Before Skyward Sword, I had the same line of thinking. It's all because of OoT and the Triforce lore and the chosen ones of the goddesses. But because of Skyward Sword, it'll be about the spirit of the hero, the bloodline of the goddess and the incarnation of hatred.

It's the same reason Ganondorf failed. The only reason why Ganondorf was so prominent was because:
1. He's the original villain.
2. They made three alternate realities of him.
The others have made an impact though. Majora's Mask is actually a fan favorite, and that game had no Triforce.

He was never more cunning or with less flaws. Ganondorf had more flaws because he wanted to have pasture for his land but when he gained power, lost sight of his initial goal and was corrupted to do the opposite. Instead of a lot of green, Hyrule turned into a dead zone, with loads of ReDeads. And heck, he's been thwarted not once, not twice, not even thrice but five total times by Link.

I also understand why Demise is named such. They chose a name that could embody the future generations of antagonists. It also hints that whoever his reincarnation is, would meet his untimely demise.

This receipt is to acknowledge that Juan has given his 2 cents.

At least this time it fits Demise... Demise even has that punch move. At least give him some sword moves.

But then again, they did release Ocarina of Time 3DS. If the WiiU and 3DS original Zeldas don't come before Smash, they can still bring in Ganondorf because of this. I actually like the idea of very stern Ganondorf against very flamboyant Ghirahim.
Ugh so much wrong in one post ahhh. You suppose so much and put foward your own opinions as fact.
A.Ganondorf is friggin iconic. Im pretty sure demise was built with Ganondorf in mind. If he was meant to embody the other antagonist he would probably take some features from them. I only spot Ganondorf there, anything else is stretching it reaaaaalllyy thin. If Ganondorf were to be getting his powers from Demise rather than being a direct reincarnationid imagine Demise would take more of a pig like form and not look anything like Ganondorf.
B. Im pretty sure skyward sword stated that Links clothes are just the uniform of Skylofts Knight Academy which happened to be green that year. If Link passed his test a year earlier wed probably see Link running around in yellow like pippin.
C. Im pretty sure who has what peices of the triforce vary from game to game as the whereabouts of the triforce change from generation to generation.
D. GANONDORF IS THE THIRD MOST RECOGNIZABLE CHARACTER FROM ZELDA THEY MADE DEMISE LOOK LIKE HIM TO SELL GAMES AND PLEASE FANS. WELL SEE HIM AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE HES  A POPULAR CHARACTER AND THAT MATTERS.
E.Hes called Demise because he destroys shit
F.If Demise or Ganondorf were put in the game with Captain Falcons move set AGAIN it still would not make any sense whatsoever. Just developers trying to cut corners.

TLDR this is you http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic
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Karoku (2100)©
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« Reply #46 on: December 21, 2011, 08:55:20 PM »

Chronologically, there is nothing "new" about Demise, therefore he can't be considered an appropriate replacement for Ganondorf in SSB4 should he replace him.

Why are we talking about Legend of Zelda characters only?
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SuperLuigiGalaxy
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« Reply #47 on: December 21, 2011, 09:22:13 PM »

Chronologically, there is nothing "new" about Demise, therefore he can't be considered an appropriate replacement for Ganondorf in SSB4 should he replace him.

Why are we talking about Legend of Zelda characters only?
Because we already assume Luigi is in.
But for serious has there been a new Nintendo IP since brawl worth putting in a new smash bros game since Brawl? Its kind of disappointing i cant really think of fresh character to add.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2011, 09:24:17 PM by SuperLuigiGalaxy » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2011, 03:21:51 AM »

Ugh so much wrong in one post ahhh. You suppose so much and put foward your own opinions as fact.
A.Ganondorf is friggin iconic. Im pretty sure demise was built with Ganondorf in mind. If he was meant to embody the other antagonist he would probably take some features from them. I only spot Ganondorf there, anything else is stretching it reaaaaalllyy thin. If Ganondorf were to be getting his powers from Demise rather than being a direct reincarnationid imagine Demise would take more of a pig like form and not look anything like Ganondorf.
B. Im pretty sure skyward sword stated that Links clothes are just the uniform of Skylofts Knight Academy which happened to be green that year. If Link passed his test a year earlier wed probably see Link running around in yellow like pippin.
C. Im pretty sure who has what peices of the triforce vary from game to game as the whereabouts of the triforce change from generation to generation.
D. GANONDORF IS THE THIRD MOST RECOGNIZABLE CHARACTER FROM ZELDA THEY MADE DEMISE LOOK LIKE HIM TO SELL GAMES AND PLEASE FANS. WELL SEE HIM AGAIN AND AGAIN BECAUSE HES  A POPULAR CHARACTER AND THAT MATTERS.
E.Hes called Demise because he destroys shit
F.If Demise or Ganondorf were put in the game with Captain Falcons move set AGAIN it still would not make any sense whatsoever. Just developers trying to cut corners.

TLDR this is you http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InsaneTrollLogic

I'm speculating, and I'm simply guessing that you're not seeing the logic in my posts. If you've read it, you'll see I'm supporting some and challenging others. But ok, let's break it down just like you did.

A. Yep, you're right Ganondorf is iconic. Demise pretty much takes upon him stylistically. But my opinion is that Ganondorf's story has been stretched to the limit. They've made three timelines of him already. Unlike Bowser, Ganondorf is actually killed time and time again, and resurrected time and time again. The creation of Demise helps the developers create new baddies instead of being constrained to one iconic Gerudo thief.

B. It does. Before Skyward Sword, it was Minish Cap that explained the origins of the garb. Things are always retconned.

C. I was talking in the context of Skyward Sword. Based on the Timeline, I could outline how the Triforce moved. You're right, it did change owners through time. In parts, it didn't have any owner. I was contesting Juan's claim that Ganondorf is a main character because he is a Triforce bearer. In SS, there was no Ganondorf, Demise didn't obtain the Triforce, Link obtained all three pieces. After the wish, it went back to the Sacred Realm. I talk in changing contexts, deal with it.

D. I don't doubt Ganondorf is freaking popular. But I agree with Rocky, the producers can do whatever they so please. If Demise was their way to stop using Ganondorf to cut corners on a timeline, then so be it.

E. I'm speculating. I'm not passing anything except references as fact. Please get that in your head. If you don't like my opinion, you don't need to tell me that I'm passing it as fact, because it isn't. Demise means death. It's a double-edged sword for me. He brings death, and he always dies.

F. Where did I say it made sense? I just said it somewhat fits Demise. But as a fan, I do want to at least give him some originality like sword moves.

BIG NOTE: I am not out here to pass everything I say is right. I am merely speculating and taking various official references to gauge my logic and probability for speculation. If I end up being right, it doesn't mean I'm actually happy about it. I do like Ganondorf more than Demise. Do I think Ganondorf would be brought back, not likely. Example: Mewtwo was highly popular as compared to Lucario. To promote the new movie at that time however, Sakurai ditched Mewtwo for Lucario. My stance is, despite what we want, I'm giving you guys perspective of what else is possible.
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RockyRaccoon
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« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2011, 08:54:47 AM »

Chronologically, there is nothing "new" about Demise, therefore he can't be considered an appropriate replacement for Ganondorf in SSB4 should he replace him.

chronologically , demise is the newest boss .
i really can't tell if you are confused by this or if you are just playing dumb like dj .

Unlike Bowser, Ganondorf is actually killed time and time again, and resurrected time and time again. The creation of Demise helps the developers create new baddies instead of being constrained to one iconic Gerudo thief.

i have killed bowser many times . i have killed mario and luigi even more ; yet , they keep coming back . are the the same people ? are they copies ? nobody gives a shit . everyone with their head somewhere in the exterior of their asshole knows that it's a game .

i'm very good at chess because when i start to lose , i can just use my monopoly money to bribe the king , and if that doesn't work , i will ensnare him in a colorful , elaborate mouse trap , leaving clues and weapons here and there to obscure the mystery .

characters from one game don't interact with characters in another game .

if two games are designed with proper consideration , they can form a storyline in which the characters can be reconciled , but the games themselves do not interact .

you are trying your damnedest to make sense out of something that never will , injecting the facts with your own opinions , which contradict the established facts . moreover , the facts themselves are contradictory because at some point , nintendo decided that no sane person would try to piece together the mystery of a bunch of shit that was thrown together because there is no mystery . it's just a bunch of shit thrown together to sell games .

Quote
B. It does. Before Skyward Sword, it was Minish Cap that explained the origins of the garb. Things are always retconned.

oh , minish cap is supposed to explain how link got his cap ? then why does he already have it in skyward sword ? your timeline is wrong and therefore invalidates your entire argument . why is it that every time you try to put together a timeline , it's wrong ?

IT'S BECAUSE THERE IS NO TIMELINE

just look at the picture . does that look like a line to you ? no . a line doesn't branch every which way in order to make things unnecessarily complicated . when you play OT (english lesson: a preposition is not included in an acronym) , you travel back in forth in time probably at least 10 times . that makes 2^10 branches in time . moreover , you are trying to apply the principle of causality (a physical phenomenon) to a make believe world . it just doesn't make any sense and never will .

oh , nintendo issued a statement about the complete and true timeline of the legend of zelda universe ? how can this be ?

OH YEAH , IT'S BECAUSE THEY WANT YOUR MONEY .

Quote
C. I was talking in the context of Skyward Sword. Based on the Timeline, I could outline how the Triforce moved. You're right, it did change owners through time. In parts, it didn't have any owner. I was contesting Juan's claim that Ganondorf is a main character because he is a Triforce bearer. In SS, there was no Ganondorf, Demise didn't obtain the Triforce, Link obtained all three pieces. After the wish, it went back to the Sacred Realm. I talk in changing contexts, deal with it.

none of that matters .
in the original legend of zelda , there was only one triforce , and it just so happens that it was divided into 8 parts , 8 not being a multiple of 3 , so there's no  way to fit that into the triforce trinity paradigm . they just made that up later . if you count the 2nd playthrough , there are only 2 triforces , a total of 16 pieces , also not divisible by 3 .

Quote
D. I don't doubt Ganondorf is freaking popular. But I agree with Rocky, the producers can do whatever they so please. If Demise was their way to stop using Ganondorf to cut corners on a timeline, then so be it.

that is very much not in agreement with me . in my opinion , if the producers do whatever they please without consideration for the integrity of the game or its heritage , they should be fired .

Quote
E. I'm speculating. I'm not passing anything except references as fact. Please get that in your head. If you don't like my opinion, you don't need to tell me that I'm passing it as fact, because it isn't. Demise means death. It's a double-edged sword for me. He brings death, and he always dies.

logic doesn't make any difference when the premise you speculate is untrue .
here is an example :

every potato has been elected president of the united states

only a natural born resident of the US can be president

if every potato was born in the US then there could be no potatos in ireland prior to trans-oceanic travel

every irish person has eaten at least one potato or died of famine

therefore conan obrien is an alien .

Quote
F. Where did I say it made sense? I just said it somewhat fits Demise. But as a fan, I do want to at least give him some originality like sword moves.

already ssbb gave ganondorf a sword to fight with . it is programmed in there and you can cause him to retain his sword as a weapon after taunting with it . they chose not to default this option because captain falcon doesn't have a sword , and in the year or so after the game was completed but before it hit stores , the development team couldn't be bothered to do any more work on a product that was already going to sell .


on a somewhat different note , someone please correct me if i'm wrong but i believe ganon appeared in more games than did ganondorf .
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 09:41:30 AM by RockyRaccoon » Logged
Karoku (2100)©
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« Reply #50 on: December 22, 2011, 10:08:33 AM »

chronologically , demise is the newest boss .
i really can't tell if you are confused by this or if you are just playing dumb like dj .

No-no, not real world time. I mean according to the Zelda timeline. In-game universe, he's the oldest in the time-line, but to us, he's "new". I was referring to the game's time-line. Not when the game came out.

And I'm throwing out my own stuff. I'm on no one's side :/
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« Reply #51 on: December 22, 2011, 11:53:35 AM »

No-no, not real world time. I mean according to the Zelda timeline. In-game universe, he's the oldest in the time-line, but to us, he's "new". I was referring to the game's time-line. Not when the game came out.

maybe you can explain this statement then :

Chronologically, there is nothing "new" about Demise, therefore he can't be considered an appropriate replacement for Ganondorf in SSB4 should he replace him.

it doesn't seem to have any merit or reason .
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Karoku (2100)©
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« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2011, 12:19:42 PM »

maybe you can explain this statement then :

it doesn't seem to have any merit or reason .

I was hoping DJ would read it and understand that Demise's debut as a character--to us--pays no significance to his replacing Ganondorf. However he's included, it's for another reason. Wasn't (part of) his argument in favor of Demise replacing Ganondorf in any way, be it SSB4 or another Legend of Zelda title?

I chose to leave it vague on purpose at first. If this doesn't answer much at all, just fill in the blanks yourself.

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« Reply #53 on: December 23, 2011, 11:50:33 AM »

I highly doubt Miyamoto had a timeline in mind when he created the LoZ franchise. If anything, Aounuma started to try and make the games fit together once he took hold of the series.

No matter where you place the games in the timeline, there will always be retcons. The games weren't made with a timeline in mind.
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« Reply #54 on: December 23, 2011, 03:03:09 PM »

Zelda discussion here as well?  Perhaps we should throw this in a separate thread all together.

SSB4 Wishlist:
Krystal
Bowser Jr.
Quote (Cave Story)
Dark Samus
Megaman
(A character from Kid Icarus: Uprising)
Tails
Mewtwo

UNCLONE THESE CHARACTERS:
Ganondorf
Falco (They can do better)
?Wolf?

Also, DLC.  That would be great.
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« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2011, 02:14:26 AM »

Just wondering, shouldn't these threads be merged? hahaha.
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