Sheik, Ness, Ridley and Capt. Falcon clues due to recent updates

[dcmjlive]

(Not all of these are my original ideas)

JumpFesta demo:

Not in E for All demo - Zelda, Kirby, Wario, Snake, Pokémon Trainer, King Dedede, Lucas
Not in JumpFesta demo - Zelda, DK, Sonic, Snake, Pokémon Trainer, King Dedede, Lucas

> So let's look at it:

- Kirby was not in the first one because of all the hats. He's in the second to show off the hats that have been already revealed in DOJO.
- Wario was not in the first one because of the overalls and wario-man. He's in the second to show off the new wardrobe.
- Snake was not in the demos because he wasn't supposed to show 3rd party characters in the demos except that he made the exception for Sonic to cover the bad news of the delay.
- Pokémon Trainer was not in the demos because of the size of the pokémon trainer model.
- King Dedede and Lucas were not in the demos most probably because they're the "newer" ones.

Given these most probable reasons, Zelda's reason could have been special as well. Most probably, Zelda is hiding Sheik...or some new secret. Her down special hasn't been released in DOJO yet so we could think that like Kirby and Wario, she'll only be in the demo if her secret was revealed. So Sheik is most probably in already...yet Sakurai is waiting for proper timing. But the Kirby file is big right? Uhm...this is another show of bias in Sakurai's part.

Melee Stages:

Onett is Ness's hometown. In Mother 3, Lucas does NOT live in Onett. Onett is hinted to be destroyed in Lucas' time period. In that sense, having this Melee stage makes it viable to have Ness in. I mean, why bring the past stage (Onett) of a character (Lucas) that he hasn't experienced. Lucas has never been to the Onett that Ness knew...until Brawl. This leads us to think that Ness would be back. Bring back Melee stages, might as well bring more Melee characters.

Brinstar is an old stage of Samus in Melee. We do have 2 more Metroid stages, Norfair and Frigate Orpheon. If Melee stages aren't unlockable as deductive reasoning could point out, then these stages could be representative of the character who owns the area. Samus would own Brinstar, ZSS would own Frigate Orpheon then finally, Ridley would own Norfair. Ridley has been widely hinted in a lot of things: the elusive Cloud Theory (sorry to those who want this to end), the Ridley boss music, and this stage, Ridley's boss area. So it could mean that Ridley really is in. (Now this isn't my idea, found it in IGN.)

Multi-man Brawl (Fighting Alloy Team):

In Melee, the Fighting Wire Frames are modeled after Capt. Falcon and Zelda. Now peculiarly, the Fighting Alloys are still modeled after characters that exist. The fighting polygon team that predated all of these had polygons for all characters. But now, there are 4 sources of models. The blue one would be now Zero-Suit Samus rather than Zelda because it just fits better that way. The green one would be Kirby. The yellow one is most likely Pikachu...or Lucas. But who would the red one be modeled after? The physique matches that of the male fighting wire frame. If that were the case...then...Capt. Falcon would be in Brawl.

And with these hints, we could actually think that Ness and Capt. Falcon are not only in the game but also starter characters rather than what we thought of, which is hidden characters. But yeah, these are just speculation. Take it like a grain of salt.

[Mycroft]

I agree with what you say about Zelda, and I need no convincing that Captain Falcon is in. However I disagree with Ness and Ridley. First of all, lets look at Ness. Smash Bros, in general, is not worried about small continuity problems. I think having Onett in Brawl suggests nothing about characters, except that there is an Earthbound character, something we already know. After all, how can a Twilight Princess Link (and indeed Zelda) fight on Hyrule Temple, from a time when they could not have experienced. It is a similar argument to that of Sheik's inclusion (Sheik wasn't in TP), and yet you sit on opposite sides for each.
As for Ridley, I don't know the Metroid games, so can't put up much of an argument. Your first comment about Brinstar being his home stage doesn't give much (if any) evidence. Remember how many characters in Melee had a home stage from somewhere they had never seen, Ganondorf in Brinstar Depths for example. Cloud theory I won't argue, as nothing can be proved either way. The Ridley boss music is a fair enough argument, and one that I accept, but this stage being Ridley's boss stage never stopped the lack of Ridley in Melee.
Either way, we'll have to wait and see, but these are just my responses

[Mastpyro]

"Given these most probable reasons, Zelda's reason could have been special as well. Most probably, Zelda is hiding Sheik...or some new secret. Her down special hasn't been released in DOJO yet so we could think that like Kirby and Wario, she'll only be in the demo if her secret was revealed. So Sheik is most probably in already...yet Sakurai is waiting for proper timing. But the Kirby file is big right? Uhm...this is another show of bias in Sakurai's part."

I think Zelda and Shiek will be two different characters, like the Samus and the other blonde girl

[The-Forgotten-One]

"Given these most probable reasons, Zelda's reason could have been special as well. Most probably, Zelda is hiding Sheik...or some new secret. Her down special hasn't been released in DOJO yet so we could think that like Kirby and Wario, she'll only be in the demo if her secret was revealed. So Sheik is most probably in already...yet Sakurai is waiting for proper timing. But the Kirby file is big right? Uhm...this is another show of bias in Sakurai's part."

I think Zelda and Shiek will be two different characters, like the Samus and the other blonde girl

wow...other blond girl...anyway, I wish/hope that it's true Dcmjlive!

[Darkmatter]

"Given these most probable reasons, Zelda's reason could have been special as well. Most probably, Zelda is hiding Sheik...or some new secret. Her down special hasn't been released in DOJO yet so we could think that like Kirby and Wario, she'll only be in the demo if her secret was revealed. So Sheik is most probably in already...yet Sakurai is waiting for proper timing. But the Kirby file is big right? Uhm...this is another show of bias in Sakurai's part."

I think Zelda and Shiek will be two different characters, like the Samus and the other blonde girl

lol. The blonde girl happns to have a name. And I completeley agree on the Zelda thing. By trying to hide it, it was revealed.

[The-Forgotten-One]

lol. The blonde girl happns to have a name. And I completeley agree on the Zelda thing. By trying to hide it, it was revealed.

that would be an interesting way of doing it...

[Fallen401]

Even to this point i dont understand why they haven't revealed Zeldas moveset much less confirmed the inclusion of Sheik in the moveset. I think G+M put it the best "By trying to hide it, it was revealed." I stand by the idea that Sheik will in fact be a separate character from Zelda though i wonder how they would justify another single character split into multiple forms i.e. Samus and ZSS. There would have been no logical reason to build such suspense around a moveset unless there was some major alterations to it, and damnit i know that Dins' Fire nerfing wasn't one of the reasons lol.

Though the other theory could be based off of a simple phenomenon known as "hype." Yes hype, the inevitable virus that can spread very quickly. What i'm trying to say is that if Nintendo or Sakurai wanted to fuel the interests and attention of hundreds of thousands they could do it by having something like Sheiks addition inbedded with feeling of uncertainty and mystery. When in the end, they had no intention of kicking Sheik from the game but used him/her as a catalyst to refuel the hype when it might seemed it was needed most. Though no doubt with the one month countdown coming up the hype is only going to increase and the revelation of the exact fate of Sheik should be coming soon.

[dcmjlive]

Hmm...in regards to Ridley, I actually didn't agree to it but I wanted to voice out someone's view on the matter...found it on IGN.

In regards to Ness and Lucas. That did have some grounds. The difference with Link and Zelda is that in every game, there is a Link and there was a Zelda. The Link and Zelda of Brawl is a representative of all LoZ games. (For the explanation of this, you could find it in various threads, especailly the Sheik thread.) Ness and Lucas however do not have the many Nesses and Lucases problem. There is only one Ness and only one Lucas. In that case, continuity is something that IS followed. Unlike for LoZ, continuity could easily be done. Brawl Lucas represents Mother 3 Lucas and Smash Ness represents Mother & EarthBound Ness. Lucas' world has a destroyed Onett, one that was destroyed before his time. Bringing back the stage is like bringing someone's past that he never knew back. So yeah, the only explanation could be that it is Ness's stage and not Lucas'.

And as regards for Zelda, yeah, they are pretty much using Sheik as a catalyst. It helps increase hype that people mostly need when people are dissatisfied by the updates. And oh yeah, I said this a short time back. The models are also a good clue. Given the arduous task of making a model of a character (concept planning, initial design, color planning, 3d modelling, movement analysis, moveset fixture, 3D coloring and final touches) plus the money involved paying the staff, given the fact that Sheik and Ganondorf are already made models that were given to the Smash crew, it would be a big waste of money to not make use of the models. Look what they did to their initial plans of Little Mac, Saki Amamiya and etc. Instead of throwing them out, they made ATs of them. So more things just lead that Sheik is not probably in but IS in.

[9steele9]

I hope they don't leave ridley as just a boss... I would be much happier if ridley was a PC. I would be angry if they just left ridley as an AT. But lets be real ridley is either PC or a boss battle.

Ness will be in brawl in some shape or form. Don't know why they would bring his level back and not him, that would be just stupid. You will probably unlock him same way you unlock him same way as you do in SSB64.

As for shiek either AT or PC(probably seprate from zelda).

Captain falcon is in. There is no point in throwing away a good original moveset. If hes not in, waste of money and time for nintendo. Nintendo wouldn't get rid of such a well known character from smash.

[dcmjlive]

It's Sheik...not Shiek...should I keep stressing that. Sheik with weird and not shriek remember.

[The-Forgotten-One]

It's Sheik...not Shiek...should I keep stressing that. Sheik with weird and not shriek remember.

but what if I think shrieking is weird?

[dcmjlive]

but what if I think shrieking is weird?

Then you'll confuse yourself...haha

[<Ninja Goron]

well, to me, the red alloy guy kinda looks like samus in a way. no other character has the thing across the chest the way smaus does in her chozo sut, and no other character has knee spikes. the only thing captain falcon about it to me is its generl shape, and shoulder thng.
but again, samus has shoulder thingys in the begging of metroid prime (the first one) when she loses her varia suit.

and, the green one cant be kirby, cause sakuri said that it wasnt kirby. it could be jigglypuff with an afro though...

[dcmjlive]

well, to me, the red alloy guy kinda looks like samus in a way. no other character has the thing across the chest the way smaus does in her chozo sut, and no other character has knee spikes. the only thing captain falcon about it to me is its generl shape, and shoulder thng.
but again, samus has shoulder thingys in the begging of metroid prime (the first one) when she loses her varia suit.

and, the green one cant be kirby, cause sakuri said that it wasnt kirby. it could be jigglypuff with an afro though...

That's because alloys aren't Kirbys, Capt. Falcons, Samuses and ?s. But he did acknowledge that the figure got its inspiration in Kirby.

[HulkSMASH]

I hate to rain on a parade, but I disagree with all of the OP's points

1) Zelda not being in the demo's prove that sheik is in.
     I'm sorry, but no it doesn't.  It's true that they appear to be hiding the existance of Sheik as best they can, but why does that prove she is in it?  I mean, if they did remove Sheik, then they'd still keep it a secret.  So her not being in is still just a big question mark.
2) Melee stages
     An interesting explanation, but I have a better one.  Sakurai wanted to put in old stages and he's not going to say "Well, I really like this stage, but since we don't have the exact character for it, it's out."  If Onette was turned into a new stage, then you'd have an argument, but as an old stage, it's simply an old stage.
3) Melee Team
      He could just as easily be based off of a number of other characters such as Snake or some other character we haven't seen yet  It's also possible (not likely) that they have their own moves.