Ganondorf and Toon Link

[dcmjlive]

One of the biggest clone concerns are Ganondorf and Toon Link. So here's the place to release your sentiments. Here's my sentiments on them:

Ganondorf - I still don't understand why they gave Ganondorf a moveset that is STILL based on Captain Falcon. The only reason it still feels like Ganondorf is because of the darkness moves. But Ganondorf in TP never ran like that. He never punched or kicked but he showed general proficiency in the sword. Even in WW, he was able to wield two swords at once. If I were to make a moveset, it'd be like this:

Standard Special Move: Thunder Ball
- this move would pretty much have the explosive properties of Din's Fire but be chargeable and travel like Samus' charge shot. This comes from OoT originally and this is the one you could deflect with a sword. It's been a staple ever since.
Side Special Move: Dash Slash
- this move comes from TP or WW (I forgot) where he would dash towards the opponent with a quick slash.
Up Special Move: Levitate or Huge Leap
- the levitate is a move taken from OoT while Huge Leap is taken from TP.
Down Special Move: Fire/Thunder Wall
- it will create a temporary wall around Ganondorf such that if anyone is trapped, they'll be forced to fight him. This is taken from the fact that whenever you fight Ganondorf in final battles, there's always a wall like structure so you can't escape.

And as for A moves, it could all incorporate sword moves similar to those used in TP or WW.

Speed: Slightly faster than Link
Weight: Slightly lower than original
Attack Speed: Fast

Toon Link - I don't have much of a problem with Toon Link to be frank. It's a staple for a Link to have a boomerang, a bow, a spin attack and bombs. I don't want that to be removed. I do want some moves to be from Wind Waker. Here's my tinkered moveset:

Standard Special Move: Ice Arrow
- I always found Ice Arrows appealing and like Young Link's fire arrows, Toon Link should have the same treatment
Side Special Move: Bombs
- The bombs would now be more of an automatic throw like Pikmin Throw.
Up Special Move: Deku Leaf + Twister
- Toon Link would summon a twister while he uses the Deku Leaf to go back to safety. On land, the Deku Leaf would create gusts of wind that will push the opponent forward.
Down Special Move: Parry Attack
- In WW, my favorite move has to be parry attack. It worked so well that it was used to fight Ganondorf. It's like a counter attack. WOOHOO!
Final Smash: Ballad of Gales
- It would bring a huge hurricane in and sweep enemies off the stage.

So where's Spin Attack and Boomerang?

Down Smash: Spin Attack
- if you hold it, it'll become the hard to control hurricane spin.
Side Smash: Boomerang
- well, it replaces the sword move but imagine it as an effective short and long range killer.

So what are your thoughts on Ganondorf and Toon Link?

[rockinon]

I think that this would be cool, but you couldn't really make a wall around Ganondorf.  That's just unrealistic. 

Anyway, I've actually been getting used to Ganondorf and will take any opportunity to give some respect to him online, if anyone would take the challenge.

[illnesz]

overall, i like these movesets but alot of them sound too extreme.

"Side Special Move: Dash Slash
- this move comes from TP or WW (I forgot) where he would dash towards the opponent with a quick slash."

this sounds like ike's move

"Down Special Move: Fire/Thunder Wall
- it will create a temporary wall around Ganondorf such that if anyone is trapped, they'll be forced to fight him. This is taken from the fact that whenever you fight Ganondorf in final battles, there's always a wall like structure so you can't escape."

this sounds extremely overpowered, u might have to explain it more thoroughly

"Standard Special Move: Ice Arrow
- I always found Ice Arrows appealing and like Young Link's fire arrows, Toon Link should have the same treatment"

this too sounds overpowered, quick arrows that fly straight and freeze u? that just screams 'nerf me'.

"Side Smash: Boomerang
- well, it replaces the sword move but imagine it as an effective short and long range killer."

i dont think it would work. a boomerang has a long range, u cant make a smash attack have as long a range as the boomerang. that too sounds very overpowered.

the side b should still be the boomerang i think, or just remove the boomerang.

"Down Special Move: Parry Attack
- In WW, my favorite move has to be parry attack. It worked so well that it was used to fight Ganondorf. It's like a counter attack. WOOHOO!"

another counter seems kinda repetitive by now, there are already three character who can counter. instead i suggest the megaton/magic hammer or the shovel (lol). the hammer would just be a strong hit to the ground that hits the closest ppl to u and pushes them away from u (like when u narrowly miss an opponent with toonlinks current down aerial and they get pushed away). shovel, on the other hand, would be a slow move that (if it hits) would put u in the ground like a pitfall or dk's move. either one,  if used in the air could be a very slow meteor smash.  (no one else has a move like dk's side b so it wouldnt feel  as copied as another counter would).

iim sure there are plenty other moves u could fit into a moveset for toon link.

[dcmjlive]

I actually want to change the down special into Triforce Shock. It's not really overpowered but it shocks whoever is in front of him. The attack has some loading time so it can be easily avoided but if it connects, it has potential damage. This comes from TP, Puppet Zelda.

The dash slash does sound like Ike's move. This should be the dash move instead. Instead, Ganondorf's side special should be Ghost Release like the Ghost horsemen in TP. It does normal damage and just rushes through. It can be deflected though.

Ice Arrow does sound a bit strong. Instead, let's bring back the good ol' fire arrow.

The boomerang was never long range in the Smash series. It's the bow that's long range. And since it's Toon Link, the range is nerfed. But it works for a good smash with a bit of long range.

The Parry attack need not be a counter. I said it can. Possibly, it'll just let you side dodge and attack quickly. It can also be programmed so that Toon Link will lose some breath after doing the attack. That way, it can't be spammed.

[illnesz]

"The dash slash does sound like Ike's move. This should be the dash move instead. Instead, Ganondorf's side special should be Ghost Release like the Ghost horsemen in TP. It does normal damage and just rushes through. It can be deflected though."

then this move sounds almost exactly like fox and falco's illusion. wait, is he sending the ghosts to attack as his side b or going through the enemy himself, plz clarify.


"The boomerang was never long range in the Smash series. It's the bow that's long range. And since it's Toon Link, the range is nerfed. But it works for a good smash with a bit of long range."

the boomerang is long range. it may not have the longest range, but it definitely is a long range attack. unless it only flew as far as olimar's side smash would be the only way that it wouldnt be considered overpowered. and i think it would be kinda lame to limit the boomerang's range to that much, so i just dont see how it could work. furthermore, what about when it returns to toon link, would it have the power of a smash attack on the way back? i think u need to come up with a different side smash.

"The Parry attack need not be a counter. I said it can. Possibly, it'll just let you side dodge and attack quickly. It can also be programmed so that Toon Link will lose some breath after doing the attack. That way, it can't be spammed."

what do u mean itll let u side dodge and attack? if it isnt a counter then the move would just be basically the same as pressing down when shielding to dodge an attack and then attacking back. seems like a waste of a special move imo. and if it is a counter, as i said before, i think we have too many.

[dcmjlive]

then this move sounds almost exactly like fox and falco's illusion. wait, is he sending the ghosts to attack as his side b or going through the enemy himself, plz clarify.

Sending the ghost to attack

the boomerang is long range. it may not have the longest range, but it definitely is a long range attack. unless it only flew as far as olimar's side smash would be the only way that it wouldnt be considered overpowered. and i think it would be kinda lame to limit the boomerang's range to that much, so i just dont see how it could work. furthermore, what about when it returns to toon link, would it have the power of a smash attack on the way back? i think u need to come up with a different side smash.

These are just 6 moves. It doesn't show if he's overpowered or not. I don't think it has the power of the smash attack at the way back. It'll just have the same power as the boomerang of now. If you think that the boomerang is overpowered then he shouldn't have it even now. It's just a moved move. Just like Mario Tornado being an aerial down attack. It doesn't dictate the power of the opponent.

what do u mean itll let u side dodge and attack? if it isnt a counter then the move would just be basically the same as pressing down when shielding to dodge an attack and then attacking back. seems like a waste of a special move imo. and if it is a counter, as i said before, i think we have too many.

If you've played WW, the parry attack is done when an opponent is about to attack thus leading him to roll to the back of the opponent and follow it up with a quick slash. It's faster than just side dodging then using an attack. And it's not a waste unless you consider Dimensional Cape or Flip Jump waste attacks.

Last words: You can't judge it for being overpowered as these are just 4-6 moves. Some are just moves in the current game moved into another position thus removing a move.

[penn_state_505]

I prefer my Toon Link moveset. http://www.smashpower.com/forums/index.php/topic,975.0.html

[dcmjlive]

I prefer my Toon Link moveset. http://www.smashpower.com/forums/index.php/topic,975.0.html

The only problem with that is that it doesn't make provisions to show what Link is. Link is known for his skills in archery, bomb-wielding and boomerang-wielding. It shows too much of the added arsenal. Yes, it gives Toon Link originality but it removes what makes Link Link. Deku Leaf, Skull Hammer and Magic Shield... they're all items that don't scream Link. The Magic Shield in itself is actually Nayru's Love. And I know this is just an opinion but if you play a Zelda game, which items do you use more? Those three or arrows, bombs and the boomerang?

[DoNotDelete]

I'd trade them both in for Midna+Wolf Link.

[RockyRaccoon]

i think it's fine how it is . final smash should have been different .

[dcmjlive]

i think it's fine how it is . final smash should have been different .

Actually, I could settle for that as well.

[RockyRaccoon]

maybe he turns you into a cartoon and then erases you with dip .

[CHaDOS]

maybe he turns you into a cartoon and then erases you with dip .

I hate toons!

[RockyRaccoon]

I hate toons!

who could argue with christopher lloyd ?

jigga , watt ?

[HulkSMASH]

I think what they need to do with Toon Link is really just Luigify him.  Off the top of my head, replace his bombs with dropping bombchus.  Have his boomerang go through people to strike multiple targets.  Replace his spin attack (which becomes his down A smash) with the leaf, and give him bomb arrows.